ep 5 the brave front
Mental health,  podcast,  The Brave Front

The Brave Front Episode 5 – Living with autism and making it in the music industry

Successful music producer, Andrew Kingslow, has worked alongside music royalty including John Legend and BB King. However, throughout his illustrious career he has struggled with anxiety and depression, eventually receiving a diagnosis of autism as an adult. In our exclusive interview, Andrew tells us how he masked his autism from the world, overcame a host of personal demons and took the brave step to seek support. And today, as an ambassador for the neurodivergent community across the music industry, he talks about his hope to help others to overcome the challenges and barriers that he faced. 

Show outline:

00:00:07 – 00:03:05 – Introduction and sneak preview

00:03:06 – 00:11:20 – Andrew’s career – from John Legend to Rastamouse

00:12:54 – 00:17:34 – Working as ‘the Neuro Muso’

00:17:45 – 00:30:54 – Living with autism and being diagnosed as an adult

00:30:55 – 00:36:34 – The lowest point and climbing out

00:36:35 – 00:44:15 – Changing the music industry

00:44:16 – 00:49:05 – Looking to the future

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Full transcription:

00:00:07 Tim
Welcome back to The Brave Front.
00:00:09 Tim
Podcast with a single purpose to.
00:00:11 Tim
Talk about men’s mental health.
00:00:15 Tim
My name’s Tim Beynon, and here’s.
00:00:17 Tim
A sneak preview of what’s coming up this episode.
00:00:26 Andrew
Like the the last sort of bigger project I worked on was the John Legend’s latest album, The The Soul Superstar and TV personality that is John Legend.
00:00:36 Andrew
But what I have found myself doing and what did happen when it really got bad was the urge to self harm or to stop, to stop the pain that’s going on the the the not. I I wanted to crawl out of my.
00:00:53 Andrew
The neurotypical world isn’t fully set up for a neurodivergent mind, so with that in mind, I also know there’s many, many musicians earlier on in their careers, or wherever they are in their careers that are struggling.
00:01:18 Tim
As you’ve probably guessed, in each episode of the Brave Front, I’m going to be talking to someone who either has an inspirational story.
00:01:23 Tim
To share with us.
00:01:25 Tim
Or some invaluable insights into the things many of us struggle with in this episode, I sat down with music producer Andrew Kings, though, who can count John Legend and.
00:01:33 Tim
B.B. King, amongst his impressive client list. I wanted to find out about his neurodiversity and how a diagnosis of autism as an adult has helped him to shape a new perspective on his own mental health and to set about.
00:01:45 Tim
Changing the.
00:01:46 Tim
Music industry for.
The better.
00:01:48 Tim
Now hard from listening to the debatable bits of indie rock and pop on my own Spotify playlists, I know very little about the music industry itself, and I don’t have a musical bone in.
00:01:58 Tim
My body, in fact a handful of tuneless piano lessons and a reluctant attempt with the trumpet Age 11, is about the full extent of my musical skill set. So Andrew’s ability to play countless instruments.
00:02:10 Tim
Turn his hand to different styles and genres and to write music for some of the world’s most familiar artists and movie soundtracks to boot. It’s something I have the utmost admiration for.
00:02:20 Tim
As is the fact.
00:02:21 Tim
That he has done so much and become.
00:02:23 Tim
So successful while battling personal demons.
00:02:25 Tim
And struggling to come to.
00:02:26 Tim
Terms with why his vision of the world.
00:02:29 Tim
And the way it works is so different to.
00:02:30 Tim
Everyone else’s.
00:02:32 Tim
Indeed, Andrew has recently launched a landmark survey to gather the thoughts and opinions of the autistic, ADHD and NEURODIVERGENT community within the music industry in order to gain a better understanding of the challenges and barriers they face.
00:02:47 Tim
So it was an.
00:02:48 Tim
Absolute pleasure to sit down with Andrew to talk about his personal challenges.
00:02:53 Tim
His hopes for the future and how his sister’s guitar aged 4 eventually led him to John Legend’s.
00:02:59 Tim
Front door.
00:03:06 Tim
Andrew, welcome to the Brave front. Thank you for joining us today. Really appreciate you taking some time out of.
00:03:10 Tim
Your busy day.
00:03:10 Tim
To do so, tell me how are you First off?
00:03:13 Tim
How’s things, ohm? I I am good. I am.
00:03:16 Andrew
Embracing the change that is autumn.
00:03:20 Andrew
Which is something that I don’t always do.
00:03:21 Andrew
So well, but no, I’m good.
00:03:23 Andrew
I’m good, but thank you for asking.
00:03:25 Andrew
And how are?
00:03:25 Andrew
You, by the way. Yeah, that’s about things.
00:03:27 Tim
I feel I’m with you all the change.
00:03:28 Tim
Of seasons, it’s always a weird time. It’s a it’s a.
00:03:31 Tim
Yeah, yeah, definitely. Where do we find you today? I’m sort of looking. Looks got some artwork in the background. You told me just before you started recording. Where you wanna tell everyone else?
00:03:39 Tim
Where where you’re ohh and I’m at 1:00.
00:03:41 Andrew
Of London’s famous music and.
00:03:43 Andrew
Media haunts the Groucho Club, but so I’m in Soho, holed up in Soho today and yeah, indeed, there is some, really.
00:03:51 Andrew
Crazy artwork, actually, I wish. I wish I could share it, but maybe I I.
00:03:54 Andrew
Can take some pictures.
00:03:55 Tim
And send to you. Have you bumped into any celebs or do you?
00:03:58 Andrew
I’ve not. I had the the the missing fortune or fortune depending on the way you look at it. Yeah, I’ve I’ve I basically came straight into this this hidden room. And I’m. I’m here with you now. So I’ll do my select hunting later.
00:04:08 Andrew
Hopefully. Nice. Well, they might might.
00:04:10 Tim
Might come hunting for you.
00:04:13 Tim
Listen, it’s a it’s a Friday afternoon. Where would we normally find you on a Friday afternoon? What does the sort of an average?
00:04:18 Tim
Friday. Hold hold, Sophie.
00:04:21 Andrew
Honestly, Ohh, we could find me anywhere I tend to.
00:04:24 Andrew
I I spend a lot of time in my recording studio. I’m a music producer.
00:04:29 Andrew
But generally but my my business is is split between two things now and you know one of the things is moving to is on to the sort of like.
00:04:37 Andrew
Mental health side.
00:04:38 Andrew
Of things as well, which is why we probably find each other talking to each other.
00:04:43 Andrew
But I I have meetings regularly, so today you would normally find me.
00:04:47 Andrew
In town or in?
00:04:48 Tim
A studio. Excellent. And obviously you’ve mentioned you’re you’re a music producer. You’ve made an incredible name.
00:04:53 Tim
For yourself over over. Over.
00:04:55 Tim
A long career. I’ve obviously done.
00:04:56 Tim
My research I’ve looked at your website, looked at the details, everything.
00:04:59 Tim
Tell us a little bit.
00:05:00 Tim
About your musical journey and I I write.
00:05:02 Tim
If I write.
00:05:02 Tim
And what what I read and you started playing the guitar at age 4, is that right? Is that where it all started?
00:05:07 Andrew
It did all start when it was for it started when my sister, of all people, brought a guitar home from school and I kind of looked at this thing and thought, what’s all that about?
00:05:15 Andrew
There was something about.
00:05:17 Andrew
The the organised sound that you could get from it and just the way it looked and I just thought it’s sort.
00:05:22 Andrew
Of like messing.
00:05:23 Andrew
Around on it I mean so it it’s my intro I taught myself nursery rhymes basically on the top two strings for the for the first part, but it definitely developed into something over time. Yeah for sure. So I would say that I’ve been involved in music.
00:05:36 Andrew
Since the age of 4.
00:05:38 Andrew
And I still carry that forward.
00:05:39 Andrew
Now it’s it’s followed many.
00:05:42 Andrew
It’s taking me in many directions and followed many guises. How many guises? But yeah, definitely music is the thing for.
00:05:48 Tim
Me, that is this is this is not not the time to be modest. Tell me. Tell me. Tell. Tell me a little bit about some of those. Some of those sort of bigger projects you’ve worked on. I’ve seen some of the names and what are you know what do you know? What are you most proud?
What am I?
00:06:03 Andrew
Most proud.
00:06:04 Andrew
Of do you know actually. So first of all I’ll try and answer those in the right order. So in terms of the bigger names, I mean a.
00:06:11 Andrew
Lot of what I’ve done.
00:06:12 Andrew
Is has crossed.
00:06:14 Andrew
Such multiple genres, so from anyone from like the the last sort of bigger projects I worked on with the.
00:06:22 Andrew
John Legend’s latest album, The Soul Superstar.
00:06:25 Andrew
Lauren’s TV personality, that is John Legend and it’s worked its way back from, you know, from Van Morrison. I went on tour and supporting B.B. King at times, so, and we’re talking sort of heritage acts. I was with Frankie goes to.
00:06:39 Andrew
Hollywood for a while.
00:06:42 Andrew
A lot of the 80s, like Nick Kershaw, but also moving into sort of like the modern side of things as well.
00:06:47 Andrew
Modern modern pop culture as well. So I’ve worked with a lot of the the bigger labels kind of as a writer and a producer.
00:06:55 Andrew
And and I can count people like Bill and Ted and Jin, Jin and some of the bigger writers that I work with that have got cuts, you know, huge cuts. I mean, Ryan Tedders another guy that I’ve worked with, obviously, I say, obviously.
00:07:09 Andrew
But you know the the big kind of producers are work in the back room. A lot of the time. So I support the artist as a producer and a writer.
00:07:17 Andrew
And and then projects that I’m proud of well.
00:07:23 Andrew
You know some of that? I’ve, I’ve done a lot in the film and TV world as well and actually as we as as I speak to you now, we’re just closing in on starting work on a feature film that I’m exec producing as well as.
00:07:43 Andrew
You can control all the mud.
00:07:45 Andrew
That’s I did a kids show called rastamouse.
00:07:48 Tim
Ohh Josh, I remember rastamouse yes.
00:07:48 Andrew
Which so people it was, yeah. People, people of a certain demographic and age will remember that either students, Stoner students that were around the kind of like 19 to 24 age range in 2011 or three to seven-year olds around that time as well. And it was very interesting.
00:08:08 Andrew
Like this, which are quite exciting, is that those three to seven-year olds are now kind.
00:08:12 Andrew
Well, you know, 13 to 17. So we’ve got a whole new audience to bring it to and they have very fond memories of it and also the students now have children, potentially that between 3:00 and 7:00. So we’ve got this whole new kind of audience, but it’s gonna be brilliant. So rest of us with something as proud of, and it’s going to be, I’m going to be proud again because we’re bringing the feature film to the world.
00:08:36 Andrew
But a lot. Yeah, a lot.
00:08:37 Andrew
Of stuff that I’ve done for children’s music, especially I’ve I’ve kind of ended up being kind of the go to for a lot of the companies with Nickelodeon, Sky, Kids, CBeebies, all of.
00:08:51 Andrew
These I’ve written a lot for kids, but I’ve written in a way that doesn’t write down to kids. I should write.
00:08:57 Andrew
Music that kids and their parents will enjoy.
00:09:00 Andrew
So we, you know, we’ve had multiple sort of nominations for awards and won quite a few awards as well in that realm Baftas etcetera. So yeah, I’m very proud of that. I have to say to win, to win a battle, to win a BAFTA or be nominated for BAFTA is a very heartwarming and you know, it makes it a deal a little bit.
00:09:20 Andrew
More worth it?
00:09:21 Andrew
And these long hard nights.
00:09:23 Tim
And I I imagine so. I was so just bringing joy to children as well, because that is something. It’s a programme my kids watched growing up and and. Yeah. Yeah. So I know they they enjoyed it. And it’s just like one of.
00:09:32 Tim
Those, it’s just happiness in a in a.
00:09:34 Andrew
In a in a ohh.
00:09:35 Tim
And then children’s TV format.
00:09:37 Andrew
Absolutely. It really. It really had a little life of.
00:09:40 Andrew
Its own and and there were.
00:09:42 Andrew
It also moved outside of justice Children’s TV because.
00:09:46 Andrew
It there was kind of, it was, do you know?
00:09:48 Andrew
What it was, it was one of the first.
00:09:52 Andrew
Uh, viral. Uh uh via viral content?
00:09:56 Andrew
And it at at at the time.
00:09:58 Andrew
When people weren’t searching for viral content openly on social media, whereas they do now, it went viral. It trended on TikTok every day.
00:10:09 Andrew
In the top.
00:10:10 Andrew
Probably in the UK for weeks, every time a new episode came and it trended, but we didn’t have the facilities.
00:10:19 Andrew
Or happen to.
00:10:19 Andrew
Put the infrastructure in place to actually capitalise on that. A lot of what we were doing was reactive as opposed to proactive managing press and things like that. It was a bit quite.
00:10:29 Andrew
A big noise at.
00:10:30 Andrew
The time. So it’d be very different to see how that would work in the modern world.
00:10:37 Tim
And the user.
00:10:39 Andrew
We do realise 10 years on, social media has taken on a completely it’s a beast, it’s a beast, it’s.
00:10:46 Tim
A. It’s a. Yeah, it it’s a it’s obviously it’s a that’s a. It’s a big topic in its own right. That’s that’s the positive and negatives of of that. And obviously I’m sure as you know in terms of when you you you look into the mental health side of things social.
00:10:58 Tim
Media has a whole different.
00:11:00 Tim
Dynamic to it as well of course. Ohh but.
00:11:02 Tim
Listen, tell me you’re living. You’re living.
00:11:03 Tim
I mean, you just talk through an incredible.
00:11:05 Tim
Career in terms?
00:11:06 Tim
Of what? What? You’ve been what you’ve done and what you’ve worked on and who you’ve worked with. You kind of live in the dream, really. In terms of finding you. You’ve turned a hobby and a passion into a into a career. And that’s something I think.
00:11:16 Tim
That would everyone would love.
00:11:18 Andrew
To do, yeah.
00:11:20 Tim
Or you know how?
00:11:21 Tim
Has that? Have you ever sort of stopped to reflect on that in terms of, you know you are you are doing, you’re getting paid for something that you just love doing and that’s ultimately what we would all love to be able to do?
00:11:32 Andrew
I mean, you know, I have to take note of the words that you just gave me there really because often we don’t wake up and smell the coffee, so to speak. We’re so caught in the melee and and the survival aspects of the industry and coping with the changes, you don’t often stop. But when you say that, yeah, I do do something that I love.
00:11:51 Andrew
I’m very grateful, but I can still do something that I love and I’m also very grateful that.
00:11:57 Andrew
I’m able to transition into other things to do with music.
00:12:02 Andrew
That I’m also super interested in. I mean talking to you now, doing the podcast, talking about the mental health issues that that we face all of.
00:12:09 Andrew
These, I think.
00:12:11 Andrew
When when I really reflect.
00:12:13 Andrew
I’ve not spent enough time focusing on the.
00:12:16 Andrew
Positives that you bring up.
00:12:18 Andrew
And it’s in our makeup.
00:12:20 Andrew
To actually think about the things that have gone wrong rather than the than the things that have gone right. So actually I thank you for saying that. I take it on board and.
00:12:27 Andrew
Yes, I do feel very fortunate.
00:12:30 Tim
It’s a. It’s a. It’s a. You’re right. It’s a trap. We all fall into sometimes just trying, you know, sometimes we forget how lucky we are to be where we are and and. And, you know, in that current situation because it is you get blinkered by the things that trouble you sometimes, don’t you? I think that’s often often the case.
00:12:45 Tim
Absolutely. Yeah. You’ve obviously made a name yourself in, in music, but you also created a new name for yourself and I the.
00:12:53 Tim
The neuron Museo.
00:12:54 Tim
Tell me a bit about the neuro Museo and what it means and and yeah, just tell.
00:12:59 Andrew
Me a little bit more. OK, OK, so.
00:13:02 Andrew
I mean, for some context, I.
00:13:05 Andrew
Started guitar when I picked the guitar at one of the store. I mean we let’s rewind, rewind, rewind, rewind. As it was, there’s a noise that like that, that’s the rewind noise I’m giving you. We’re back to me. Being for that are there are other things going on around me in my life at the time, but music.
00:13:22 Andrew
Was that one thing that I could super focus on and I started guitar, moved into piano. I then got accepted to a specialist music school where I received a scholarship and got really insane focused training in music that then led on.
00:13:41 Andrew
To doing the.
00:13:42 Andrew
The full music education because you know reading music, string arrangements or casual arrangements, composition, percussion, guitar. But I played I, I’ve played so many different instruments, but at the time all of this felt very natural to me. However, from an outside point of view.
00:13:57 Andrew
If, like there was what was considered, I guess an I’m just gonna say an inverted commas, an extraordinary talent. Because to me it’s just the norm.
00:14:07 Andrew
The upshot of all of this is that.
00:14:10 Andrew
Usually who, who? Your spirit, whether you’re whether you’re godly or whatever you what you’re given in one side of your.
00:14:16 Andrew
Life taken away from in another.
00:14:20 Andrew
It’s the. It’s gone to God’s balance or the spiritual balance, or the balance of the universe.
00:14:25 Andrew
And so I started to.
00:14:28 Andrew
Struggle with what I now have learned were autistic meltdowns, autistic burnout.
00:14:38 Andrew
Everything that you associate with kind of like being.
00:14:42 Andrew
What used to be called high?
00:14:44 Andrew
Functioning autism. But I’d just say on the ASD scale now on the autistic spectrum, I.
00:14:50 Andrew
I was suffering.
00:14:51 Andrew
From a very young age and it really played into most of my life.
00:14:57 Andrew
It’s built into relationships. It’s built into work, it’s built into finances, everything. Our everything spent, you know, a long time spiralling out of control. I had a diagnosis.
00:15:10 Andrew
November 2019.
00:15:14 Andrew
Being autistic spectrum.
00:15:17 Andrew
So that put a huge that.
00:15:21 Andrew
I have to say, by the way, that the the diagnosis came from being no longer being able to cope mentally with the with the thoughts, the Burnout Depression cycle, and the anxiety cycle, which I’m happy to talk about, especially on this forum.
00:15:38 Andrew
So I had a diagnosis. We went.
00:15:42 Andrew
Into autistic identity therapy that was supported through a company. Sorry, a charity I now work with. Actually, the London Autistic Charity Group or London authority, yes.
00:15:55 Andrew
And they supported me through this.
00:15:59 Andrew
And we were coming through.
00:16:00 Andrew
The other side it’s it’s not been easy because actually when you are diagnosed, I went through.
00:16:07 Andrew
The stages of grief that people go through because the life that I knew before.
00:16:13 Andrew
It was completely not what I expect. What I thought it was. I saw everything through a different, different lens, so they’ve helped me come to terms with that helped me come to terms with.
00:16:23 Andrew
What I feel, why I feel it, how to protect myself in certain situations, especially in the music industry.
00:16:32 Andrew
So The upshot back.
00:16:34 Andrew
I’m way round is I now I’ve been working and I’m kind of like doing work.
00:16:42 Andrew
Within the industry, the music industry are lobbying the music industry as the Neuro Museo.
00:16:49 Andrew
To try and create a healthier and more understanding environment in which we can all work Better Together because their work there are definitely triggers for me in the music industry, it moves very quickly. It demands a lot of a quick work, it’s it’s very anxiety inducing. There’s always some stress. There’s always a.
00:17:10 Andrew
A deadline somewhere. There’s always something. So.
00:17:13 Andrew
I think you know that added to a lot of the the.
00:17:16 Andrew
Issues that I had.
00:17:18 Andrew
And we’re working with the industry or the industry and the neurodivergent community within the industry.
00:17:26 Andrew
Try and make it a more safe space for us all.
00:17:30 Tim
Basically fantastic. I mean, I’d like to talk to you more about that.
00:17:33 Tim
In terms of in.
Yeah, yeah.
00:17:34 Tim
Terms of the neurodivergence across the the music industry. It’s not an industry I know very well, so I’m I’m I’m keen to find out more from your point of view in terms of what that’s like and the and the work you’re doing, but let’s just take a step back.
00:17:45 Tim
In terms of your your diagnosis 20/20/19, so you’re.
00:17:48 Tim
You’re you’re an adult. I I don’t.
00:17:50 Tim
Know how old you were at that time?
00:17:53 Andrew
Anywhere between 30 and 70. Somewhere somewhere you’re an.
00:17:56 Tim
You’re an adult, so.
00:17:58 Tim
Tell me what life was like before that point in terms of in terms.
00:18:01 Tim
Of how how did you?
00:18:04 Tim
What were some of the issues and some of the challenges you were facing growing up, you know, into into as a child as an adolescent and growing?
00:18:09 Tim
Into, you know, as a man, how how?
00:18:13 Tim
Or were those manifesting themselves in everyday life?
00:18:17 Andrew
OK, so there are key things that are associated with it and it depends on where you are in your, in your cycle of burnout and depression because it is.
00:18:29 Andrew
A cycle.
00:18:30 Andrew
First of all I can I can think on a kind of a an interaction on Community level is where.
00:18:36 Andrew
As as an autistic person, you tend to spend a lot of time being on the peripheral on the outside because.
00:18:45 Andrew
Maybe people would would know of this, but we tend to what’s called mask a lot. So our our emotional palette.
00:18:53 Andrew
Doesn’t exist in the way that other peoples does, so a lot of the time you when you’re in a a group situation.
00:19:01 Andrew
You’re not able to read the room. You’re not able to read the people around you. And so we we tend to kind of complicate things and masks. So if you think of.
00:19:12 Andrew
Our computer programme is a hell of a lot longer than anyone else’s and takes a hell of a lot more RAM or memory or resource to run because we’re thinking around things all the time, we’re not thinking about feeling. We’re thinking about what someone else might be feeling, that we they can then potentially react around.
00:19:31 Andrew
Or react to it’s it gets. You can see already neatly. Yeah, that gets very complicated so.
00:19:37 Andrew
That that added that added.
00:19:38 Andrew
To the burnout cycle, but also made it very difficult for me to be natural in Group environments. And quite often you’d be referred to as eccentric or.
00:19:47 Andrew
Yeah, the mad professor. All of these things, all names that.
00:19:49 Andrew
Have been.
00:19:50 Andrew
Given in my.
00:19:50 Andrew
Life. So there was, in a sense, a disconnect between me and and my environment or the environment, not my environment, the environment, that also I tended to gravitate towards. I put focus.
00:20:07 Andrew
And so my music as a result and into production and music production so.
00:20:12 Andrew
Whilst this was a blessing, it could also act as a curse because it’s once again pushing me more into a screen which is kind of what a lot of people do now by the list more into a screen and away from human interaction and content. So I spent more and more time working on my own, taking more and more work.
00:20:30 Andrew
On because.
00:20:31 Andrew
This is my safe space.
00:20:34 Andrew
And therefore physically not fully being able to kind of accommodate all of that work as well. So again, the cycle starts again, overwork, burnout.
00:20:45 Andrew
Anxiety, not wanting to be around people because of the anxiety. But the anxiety is always fed from me not being come from me, not being it. You see it and here we go. Here’s the spasm and the spasm builds and builds and builds and what I tended to find is as I got older.
00:20:54 Tim
Yeah. So the chicken and egg situation, isn’t it? Yeah.
00:21:04 Andrew
Without realising it, these burnouts are getting closer and closer together, which makes perfect sense because I’ve.
00:21:10 Andrew
And we get more tired. Our brains are as malleable as they used to be. We just don’t.
00:21:15 Andrew
Have that that emotional.
00:21:17 Andrew
Strength to to kind of carry these things.
00:21:20 Andrew
So it you know.
00:21:21 Andrew
It manifests in in in many.
00:21:25 Andrew
Many ways really, but but the majority.
00:21:27 Andrew
I found myself.
00:21:29 Andrew
Also starting to disassociate, I don’t know you. You come across the term disaster?
00:21:35 Andrew
But I didn’t.
00:21:36 Andrew
Feel like I was living my life for a long time and I became the third person or a a character, you know, a narrator of my whole life rather.
00:21:42 Andrew
Than the person living it.
00:21:44 Tim
Old classic old classic.
00:21:47 Andrew
Symptoms but.
00:21:50 Andrew
Quite distressing when you start to, you know.
00:21:54 Andrew
It’s sometimes that.
00:21:55 Andrew
That disassociations associate associated with schizophrenia as well. I believe not. Not, you know, this is nothing. I’ve never been anywhere near.
00:22:03 Tim
That, but what?
00:22:04 Andrew
I have found myself doing and what did happen when it really got bad was the urge to self harm or to stop to stop.
00:22:13 Andrew
The pain that’s going on the the the.
00:22:16 Andrew
Not I I wanted to crawl.
00:22:17 Andrew
Out my skin at times, but I couldn’t be in my own body there. There was a way to bring yourself back in to the world was almost to hit yourself back into the world. These things really happen.
00:22:27 Andrew
And and and. I’m very, very grateful that I got help when.
00:22:31 Tim
I did, yeah.
00:22:32 Andrew
You know, that was pointed in.
00:22:33 Andrew
The right direction too help because things were getting quite bad, so it was a spiral. It has been a spiral.
00:22:39 Andrew
Yeah. And now now I know. And with people around me supporting me and the right tools, the idea is to manage that.
00:22:48 Andrew
And yeah.
00:22:49 Tim
It. Yeah, I it’s it’s difficult for somebody who who isn’t in that space to to understand that I can. I can. You know, I I. But you’re explaining it very eloquently and and and in a way that that you know I I really appreciate and I’m I’m just trying to get a sense in terms of in terms of for you that’s that masking I’m assuming you know started at a young age.
00:23:10 Tim
And and it’s something that you continue to do and I’m assuming that just grew and grew, did that become harder?
00:23:15 Tim
As you got older.
00:23:16 Andrew
Yeah, yeah. I I’m. I’m laughing. Yeah.
00:23:21 Andrew
When I was younger, the the music.
00:23:23 Andrew
I’m. I’m from a very working class background in Manchester and then I just got plucked out scholarship into a school where there were children who were from very wealthy back but.
00:23:34 Tim
He’s a massive.
00:23:35 Andrew
Cross section.
00:23:36 Andrew
So already there’s an identity loss from who am I as a kid?
00:23:42 Tim
He’s like, who the?
00:23:43 Andrew
Hell, are this like even from?
00:23:44 Andrew
Just a normal kind of emotional growing up as a child thing point of view.
00:23:51 Andrew
I’m already a bit lost the the other thing.
00:23:56 Andrew
That I also felt during during my school time.
00:24:00 Andrew
Was we didn’t really get an opportunity to to be children because there was a high performing school you you were expected to practise all the time perform at a very high level and also have very good grades in your academic it was it was intense. So that development that happens through the age 12 to 17.
00:24:20 Andrew
Where you do.
00:24:21 Andrew
Learn how to interact with your peers and you do learn how to argue and how to debate and all.
00:24:26 Andrew
Of these things.
00:24:27 Andrew
It happened on a much more adult.
00:24:29 Andrew
Level. So we missed that out.
00:24:31 Andrew
The this this also had a knock on effect the the masking thing we were back to. I need to come.
00:24:35 Andrew
Back to the point of the of the masking.
00:24:38 Andrew
I did start very early on masking I did.
00:24:40 Andrew
Through my music.
00:24:41 Andrew
I mean I I used to actually I found it very easy to be emotional, more emotional through music, play, shop and bar.
00:24:51 Andrew
All, all, all the different composers playing this through piano was my way to emote. I’m just trying to think also that it it happens in so on so many levels, not knowing who you are causes you to mask to fit in with everyone else and fit in with your environment again another.
00:25:09 Andrew
A recognisable symptom of my autism. I I’ve gotta, I’ve gotta say quite quickly. Imagine imagine any relationship that you embark on. If you start from the point of man.
00:25:19 Andrew
It’s gonna fall apart at some point, and that’s when everything’s gonna point. You can’t keep the energy up and so.
00:25:25 Tim
You’re you’re you’re essentially pretending to be to be someone you’re not, essentially.
00:25:25 Andrew
You need to dig yourself.
00:25:29 Andrew
Yeah, you’re essentially quite often pretending to be the person that you think of. The people want you to be rather than your very self. It always falls apart.
00:25:40 Andrew
Eventually, yeah. And sometimes the cataclysmic effect, other times it just sort of like.
00:25:45 Tim
Yeah, I’m just like it’s it’s a huge amount of pressure on you in in those situations. So I can’t imagine how hard and challenging that must be. Did there come a point heading towards that time when you were you, you know, you received your diagnosis and you mentioned earlier that it was, you know, as a result of of reaching a point of of?
00:25:46 Andrew
I hate that.
00:26:05 Tim
Of anxiety and depression, which you you got? Yeah.
00:26:08 Tim
That led you to.
00:26:08 Tim
That was there a point in time.
00:26:11 Tim
Where where it reached?
00:26:12 Tim
A crescendo, if you like, in terms of how bad things have got for.
00:26:17 Andrew
Yeah, yeah. I mean with the.
00:26:18 Andrew
I think it’s it’s probably.
00:26:22 Andrew
Like with many people, lockdown exacerbated all the issues. Problem. There’s it.
00:26:28 Tim
There’s a number.
00:26:28 Andrew
Of rats was talking to my therapist the other day. I was and knock knock down actually provided solace for me as an autistic person once said, transitioned from the shock.
00:26:42 Andrew
Because at this point now you were very much in in in control as in.
00:26:48 Andrew
For a short period of time, the another thing is organisation. For me, the organisation of my time and I like to.
00:26:57 Andrew
I like my timetable to be organised, I like to do the same thing every day if possible. That’s something that locked down really provided us. It gifted me that for quite a while but what happens then is I also it took me having to interact with people. It took that away. I didn’t have to interact with people on a daily.
00:27:17 Andrew
Basis because we weren’t allowed to. Yeah. So actually it’s true. So actually coming back into the world.
00:27:27 Andrew
Was really hard. Well, we all hate change, I think. Well, I say that I think change is the big thing and that’s that’s the big trigger for anxiety for me. Well, there’s a big change and that’s what locked down really highlight. It is one massive change into another boom like that. But then also it highlight the fact that.
00:27:47 Andrew
Things can change at any point in the modern world as well.
00:27:51 Andrew
And we’re constantly in a state of flux and for a mind that wants to be organised and move in a singular direction, that’s really hard.
00:27:58 Tim
So. So tell me what actually led you then to the diagnosis at that point and in terms you you mentioned that you said that you had signposted that way. So was there somebody or or or a a position that helped you?
00:28:10 Andrew
I was going.
00:28:11 Andrew
Going through an another round of CBT.
00:28:17 Andrew
And every time I did CBT.
00:28:19 Andrew
I felt a little bit worse than better.
00:28:22 Andrew
But one of the upshots of the CBT with the therapist was you shouldn’t everything that you’re talking about at the moment, and this is a joint realisation. Maybe you should.
00:28:32 Andrew
Do a test.
00:28:34 Andrew
Maybe you should look at it. You know, just even an online one.
00:28:37 Andrew
And and well.
00:28:38 Andrew
I thought you know what people have said. You know people have.
00:28:41 Andrew
Anecdotally mentioned to me, oh, you’re clearly on.
00:28:43 Andrew
The spectrum, thank you, yes.
00:28:46 Andrew
And I thought you.
00:28:47 Andrew
Know I’ll just go and do it and I think I.
00:28:49 Andrew
Scored like 26 or 27 out of 30 on this test. It’s like.
00:28:54 Andrew
00:28:56 Andrew
I’m depressed, bordering on suicidal. I can’t make sense of anything anymore and I look at this.
00:29:04 Andrew
And you know it really.
00:29:07 Andrew
I I really ought to do something with it this time, so I’ve found that a charity on Instagram and just reached just typed it and they were able to point me in the right direction and help me and get the help I need get.
00:29:18 Andrew
The you know everything I needed was.
00:29:20 Andrew
Credible and that is.
00:29:22 Tim
How did you?
00:29:22 Tim
Feel about how did you feel about that, that taking that?
00:29:26 Tim
Step did you did?
00:29:27 Tim
You want to to to to get that diagnosis. Were you worried about getting that diagnosis or or or how were you? What were your thoughts going into?
00:29:37 Andrew
That on that desperation.
00:29:40 Andrew
I was. I was. I was desperate. I it’s. I can’t go on it. It wasn’t. I can’t go on like this anymore. The crippling anxiety, the social anxiety, the.
00:29:53 Andrew
Everything, everything I was, I was self medicating in in ways that I shouldn’t have been to cope with things as well.
00:30:03 Andrew
We just just to get me in a room where I didn’t, where I felt like it was part of the room, you know, I was a, you know, resorting to self medicating.
00:30:14 Andrew
Which in turn was making the anxiety worse and every, you know. And there’s another, it’s just a constant constant, sort of like cycles and.
00:30:26 Andrew
It was like I need to do something. I need to do something. As for me it primarily but also with the people around me that care because it’s, you know, it’s. I’m it it it got to a I I was kind of a destructive frame of mind like if I’m thinking this through now with you know I’m actually trying to cogitate it myself.
00:30:47 Andrew
But I knew.
00:30:50 Andrew
I had to.
00:30:51 Andrew
Had to do something before it was too late.
00:30:54 Tim
And when you say before it’s too late. What? What do you mean? Do you think that were you you suicidal at?
00:30:57 Andrew
We’ll see later.
00:30:58 Tim
That point, were you?
00:30:59 Tim
Were you were you have thoughts of suicide?
00:31:00 Andrew
I was. I was.
00:31:02 Andrew
I was bordering on it. They were coming more. They were. It was becoming more and more.
00:31:06 Andrew
I was fantasising about it more.
00:31:09 Andrew
And I don’t think I’m. I’m I don’t think I was ever a candidate for actual suit. Well, I mean, I don’t know how far I I’ve got to where I’ve got and got help. So I don’t know how much further I could have gone.
00:31:21 Andrew
But it yeah, it was. It was really. Yeah, it was tough. Really. Really.
00:31:26 Tim
Tough. So what? What came next? Obviously that’s that’s that’s the that’s the dark place you were in. And and and you know you the charity with charity was there to help you. And what what could next?
00:31:37 Andrew
It came. What comes next is a gradual.
00:31:43 Andrew
The gradual journey, the relearning me, the acceptance of me, and and who I am, what my boundaries, learning my boundaries.
00:31:58 Andrew
Learning what I can give them, what I can’t. I it was really it was relearning me with the new mindset with the.
00:32:05 Andrew
With new information.
00:32:07 Tim
Did it take a weight off your shoulders at all in terms of, you know, knowing I am autistic this this is who I am. Did that almost in a way having that?
00:32:17 Tim
That recognition and that and that diagnosis to that kind.
00:32:20 Tim
Of lift a pressure off you in any way.
00:32:23 Andrew
Yeah, 100 percent, 100%. I mean, I wouldn’t say initially. Initially it was like as like I mentioned, you know, grief earlier, you know you you feel.
00:32:36 Andrew
And I don’t wanna, I I I I don’t ever take the word grief lightly and the.
00:32:43 Andrew
In you know, obviously I I’m grieving something that other people.
00:32:48 Andrew
Have and at it.
00:32:50 Andrew
I I I felt the anger.
00:32:52 Andrew
Felt the sadness I’ve felt, the frustration it was, you know, but the overarching feeling in the end is relief.
00:33:00 Andrew
Because I now.
00:33:03 Andrew
My world is more real.
00:33:06 Andrew
It’s more real, more relatable to me.
00:33:08 Tim
And what was the the reaction from your, your family and friends and and and peers? It’s it’s like what?
00:33:17 Andrew
Oh, sorry I couldn’t be there.
00:33:20 Andrew
It was something that I.
00:33:20 Andrew
Had to explain very, very carefully mean.
00:33:24 Andrew
A bunch of people, they said what?
00:33:26 Andrew
Like you didn’t.
00:33:26 Andrew
Know already the.
00:33:27 Andrew
Usual. It’s like it’s it’s funny.
00:33:30 Andrew
You know, it’s like everyone knows who’s the alcoholic, but no one ever tells them.
00:33:33 Andrew
In the ring.
00:33:34 Andrew
You know. Yeah, I’m an.
00:33:35 Tim
Alcoholic. What you didn’t know?
00:33:37 Andrew
No. So there was a.
00:33:38 Andrew
There was a whole load of people.
00:33:41 Andrew
They said, yeah, we we knew already. I mean, go tell me something new.
00:33:46 Andrew
Oh man, my but my parents are like obviously I love them dearly, but they was it.
00:33:51 Andrew
Was hard, hard for them to understand, I.
00:33:53 Andrew
Guess, but I just explained it in in a way that I could and.
It’s really.
00:34:00 Andrew
And this is the other thing, because I did, I didn’t realise that my emotional connection with them was also it’s it’s.
00:34:07 Andrew
A lot better.
00:34:07 Andrew
Now actually the way I feel and the way.
00:34:09 Andrew
I can be with them, I think.
00:34:11 Andrew
It’s a lot better because before us it completely emotionally stunts it. It’s like there’s just a complete lockdown.
00:34:17 Tim
Would you would you have used that masking with your parents and?
00:34:20 Tim
Your family as well.
Oh, God, yeah. Yeah. Ohh God.
00:34:23 Andrew
Yeah, I was so awkward in in situations, in fact.
00:34:28 Andrew
I I used to find it really, really hard going home to. I moved to London quite a long time ago from Manchester. They’re all still there. He’s super, super hard.
00:34:38 Andrew
To go home, the anxiety levels on my way home.
00:34:43 Andrew
Was so high it it kept me away from home for such.
00:34:46 Andrew
A long.
00:34:46 Andrew
Time and I never really, you know, on unwound all of that or just got to grips with thought what that was. But there were, you know, a whole number of reasons. And I I.
00:34:57 Andrew
Think that having.
00:34:58 Andrew
To mask quite often as well, like we went, I was so burnt out by the time I got home, I collapsed. There’s obviously like there is a safe space.
00:35:04 Andrew
I and then I could I?
00:35:06 Andrew
Could I? Could he couldn’t even? Hardly.
00:35:08 Andrew
They they, they say, autistic burnout, and I actually was describing my burnout as this before I had read it. It’s like the computer has to shut down and then you have to reboot and in order to that process is that everything slumps your mind the whole lot. And again, I know going up at.
00:35:23 Andrew
Its engine? Yeah. You have to pull me back.
00:35:25 Tim
Online. That’s OK, that’s OK.
00:35:26 Andrew
Yeah, sometimes I say that I actually.
00:35:33 Tim
No worries, no worries.
00:35:34 Tim
Going back to going back to like being with with friends and family and stuff, have you since since your diagnosis have has it have you?
00:35:38 Andrew
Yeah, yeah.
00:35:41 Tim
Felt able to sort of be your your true self.
00:35:44 Tim
Law and and.
00:35:45 Tim
How have they taken to that?
00:35:47 Andrew
RA would say it’s the work in progress.
00:35:51 Andrew
I would say it’s a work in progress because.
00:35:54 Andrew
I am.
00:35:56 Andrew
I I I truly believe that we are. I am certainly on the edge of the generation that that look at mental health differently.
00:36:05 Andrew
Are you know, in honesty, there’s a stoicism in the older generations that I massively respect, you know, the, the, the, the post world, just post World War 2, the baby boomers, all of it. I massively respect it, but I think it makes it very difficult to engage directly about what my mental health issues might be.
00:36:27 Andrew
So you know, that’s my honest truth. But that but then there are people, but then there are people that are, you know, very open to.
00:36:34 Andrew
That as well so.
00:36:35 Tim
Yeah, I imagine that’s that’s different. People are gonna react to different ways, I imagine. Of course. Tell me a little bit about the sort of the mission you’re on now in terms of.
00:36:46 Tim
And you know, this is a big journey you’ve been on personally, but you’ve kind of taking it now to the.
00:36:50 Tim
Wider industry and and.
00:36:52 Tim
Yeah, try to look.
00:36:53 Tim
At at how you can potentially support or at least recognise the challenges that others face.
00:36:59 Tim
In the music.
00:37:00 Tim
Industry tell me a little bit about that and.
00:37:01 Tim
Tell me a little bit about your work in that area.
00:37:05 Andrew
OK, so I.
00:37:11 Andrew
Struggles quite to get to the point that I might now where is a point of. It’s not perfection, but it’s more equilibrium. In order to do that actually I’ve also had to I’m going on my own. I’m going on my sober journey now as well. I’m having to. I’m having honestly, I’ve gone.
00:37:31 Andrew
In so many different ways, but.
00:37:35 Andrew
All of this is not well, it’s. It’s certainly freed up time for me to think about.
00:37:42 Andrew
Now I’m at this point in my career, what I can actually do to put something back in.
00:37:48 Andrew
I know I.
00:37:49 Andrew
Know I’ve had difficulty work in certain environments. I don’t know. Certain environments have had difficulty working properly with me in them.
00:37:59 Andrew
I’m just gonna take accountability on both sides here, right? But that’s.
00:38:06 Andrew
The neurotypical world isn’t fully set up for a neurodivergent mind, so with that in mind, I also know there are many, many musicians earlier on in their careers, wherever they are in their careers, that.
00:38:23 Andrew
A struggling.
00:38:25 Andrew
They’ve taken music as their special focus and and they are I I know so many musicians that I if I as or certainly show signs of being ASD or ADHD.
00:38:36 Andrew
Or bias, which is the equally possible so.
00:38:41 Andrew
I’ve managed to and this is.
00:38:43 Andrew
With the help.
00:38:44 Andrew
Of again, the charity that really helped me out, the LA London Autistic charity group, we’ve put together a survey with the University of Bedfordshire. It’s gonna be the first sort of of its type. It’s a clinical.
00:39:02 Andrew
Survey I’d I’d say clinical surveys. It’s got full research department on it and what?
00:39:07 Andrew
We’re going.
00:39:07 Andrew
To do, we want to find out.
00:39:10 Andrew
The the the positives and the negatives and the difficulties and just anything we want, we want people stories we wanna know about what they’ve struggled with. We wanna we wanna know about everything to do with the music.
00:39:21 Andrew
So that we can put all that information together.
00:39:24 Andrew
And take it to the wider music community with a view to putting in a set of guidelines.
00:39:31 Andrew
Almost a toolkit, if you will to, you know, help us all work together. And I mentioned it earlier. So we’re quite early on that journey. The surveys already out and promoting it at the moment and we’ve got some great support from industry, industry bodies, back ham.
00:39:51 Andrew
Who work in mental health in the music industry. The PRS, they’re a collection agency within the music. The collection agent for the music industry.
00:39:59 Andrew
Uh, we’ve got law firms. I’m I talk regularly with Simpkins law firm.
00:40:03 Andrew
One of the big.
00:40:04 Andrew
Media and entertainment law firms we’re we’re all getting together to kind of push this forward because it’s a massive conversation that’s opened up and I’m using, you know, my experience and hopefully my voice to kind of amplify this message.
00:40:18 Andrew
And get.
00:40:19 Andrew
The message across the music industry just to.
00:40:21 Tim
Help, I’d just say I don’t know a great deal about the music industry. Yeah, not a world I’m familiar with, but. But as someone who who is and has worked in it for as long as you have do, do you?
00:40:31 Tim
Feel that?
00:40:31 Tim
It is. It has some issues around inclusivity when it comes to the Neurodivergent community. Or is it something that you just.
00:40:40 Tim
Think it just hasn’t added.
00:40:42 Andrew
It’s not even just inclusivity, it’s protection as well. I mean, you know, you’re 9 times more likely to become addicted to substances if you’ve tried them as an autistic.
00:40:55 Andrew
Or on the ADO HD spectrum. So. And that’s just you know that’s that’s being data gathered from a study I think it was Cambridge I think please don’t quote me no the music industry into that.
00:41:09 Andrew
And deadlines and touring and this and that it and there are, you know, there are actually charities within the music industry that are helping musicians.
00:41:18 Andrew
That are really struggling with addiction as well.
00:41:20 Andrew
The and it’s one of.
00:41:21 Andrew
Those industries, I don’t know how to say it in a in a in a polite way, but it’s slightly it. It doesn’t encourage the use, but it doesn’t discourage either. You know it’s it’s been glamourised somewhat along the way we all.
00:41:35 Andrew
No, we all know. So it’s about that as well really.
00:41:38 Tim
And what’s your?
00:41:39 Tim
Hopes ultimately for for for the survey and the results that come from it, until you mentioned a set.
00:41:43 Tim
Of guidelines but.
00:41:45 Tim
Presumably as well, you, you, you know you do.
00:41:47 Tim
You do you sort.
00:41:48 Tim
Of dream of, of a, of a time when neurodivergent people can can see and young people in particular can see.
00:41:55 Tim
Music industry as a as a career that.
00:41:57 Tim
Is welcoming to them.
00:41:59 Andrew
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. But also I think it’s we, we it’s about building up a community as well within the industry where there’s support and there’s a support network because currently that doesn’t exist specifically. There is no, there is no specific place to go to.
00:42:15 Andrew
I know that because I couldn’t find it and I had to search outside of it. Now I think ideally I’d like to see a place where that, you know that is.
00:42:24 Andrew
That is possible. I’d like to see a time where there is a community we can go to. I’d love to be a part of that if it happens, or at least.
00:42:31 Andrew
Support it, you know.
What I was.
00:42:33 Tim
Gonna say and and.
00:42:34 Tim
What about you personally being involved in a project?
00:42:36 Tim
At that and being being a A a champion for others and being a a voice as well.
00:42:42 Tim
Self. How does that make you feel? Do you are?
00:42:45 Tim
You are you. I’m. I’m.
00:42:46 Tim
Assuming you’re very proud of that.
00:42:48 Tim
You should be.
00:42:48 Tim
I’m not of that. I I’ve had.
00:42:50 Andrew
My I’ve had moments like when this, you know, we.
00:42:53 Andrew
Did all this work to get the survey?
00:42:55 Andrew
Together and we.
00:42:56 Andrew
Had all these zoom calls and.
00:42:59 Andrew
And then when when.
00:43:00 Andrew
The thing actually happened. What’s been do you know what? What’s been most?
00:43:04 Andrew
Wonderful is the is the feedback from people around me. Actually it’s like you don’t realise whether you’re whether something you’re doing like this has value until it’s out in the world. It’s like, well, we’ll just it. There is a bit of a well, let’s build it and see if they can kind of thing, but I even have people, people like. It’s even someone people ringing me today. Like someone rang me today just to say, you know what, I had nothing. I have no.
00:43:25 Andrew
Reason to call you other than to.
00:43:26 Andrew
Say I’m really.
00:43:28 Andrew
Proud of what you’re doing and I just wanted to thank you for doing it. It’s coming. It’s coming from all directions. So this isn’t.
00:43:36 Andrew
I I feel.
00:43:38 Andrew
I just I’m I’m very.
00:43:40 Andrew
Grateful for people’s feedback. I’m very grateful for yeah for the response. If there is anything even.
00:43:47 Andrew
If it’s just.
00:43:48 Andrew
The conversation opens up a bit wider and we do create a community that’s that’s something for me because.
00:43:56 Andrew
It’s such a fragmented community at the moment and in life, you know, everything’s so fragmented. We’re all in these little pockets of social media bubble just to be able to come together and actually talk.
00:44:09 Andrew
On the level, it’s yeah, even. Yeah. Great. I think, Mr feel, I feel proud.
You should you.
00:44:14 Tim
You. Yeah, absolutely right, you.
00:44:15 Tim
Should you definitely, definitely should and.
00:44:18 Tim
What about you personally in terms of your own journey, you said you still got a little way to go. You feel what’s what’s next for you on your personal journey with with autism and sort of personally professionally?
00:44:28 Andrew
Oh, it’s a big question. What’s next for me?
00:44:30 Andrew
I I’ve had a very bad mood mentally. I’ll I’ll level with you.
00:44:35 Andrew
Are all August and September were really quite bad and very anxious. I’ve I’ve this isn’t.
00:44:42 Andrew
So honestly, it’s to keep. It’s to. It’s to keep moving forward and to and to manage and to learn to manage better.
00:44:51 Andrew
And to learn to manage better around those that I learn.
00:44:54 Andrew
As well.
00:44:55 Andrew
UM, so it is. It’s very much a working in.
00:44:59 Andrew
Programme. There’s no, there’s no.
00:45:00 Andrew
There’s no cure.
00:45:01 Andrew
That’s the other thing. It’s just it you got to put the work in. So my journey it it’s it’s ongoing. You said you said was it my hopes did you say?
00:45:10 Tim
Or yeah, just just just if you if.
00:45:12 Tim
You were to look five years down the line. Where do you see see where do you hope to?
00:45:15 Tim
See yourself.
00:45:17 Andrew
Five years down the line.
00:45:21 Andrew
Well, honestly, but because there.
00:45:23 Andrew
Are there are a number of there?
00:45:25 Andrew
Are a number of projects happening at the moment, but I’d love to be in a point.
00:45:31 Andrew
Where I am at the moment I’m actually say for instance looking at doing.
00:45:38 Andrew
A. A qualification in counselling of some description so that that’s part.
00:45:43 Andrew
Of it still.
00:45:44 Andrew
Create music. Always be creating music, but always be creating.
00:45:47 Andrew
Music and sometimes.
00:45:49 Andrew
I felt like I’ve fallen out of love with it and I’ve moved away and then I’ve always been drawn back in creating music, helping people.
00:45:58 Andrew
And creating things that.
00:46:02 Andrew
Whatever they are that.
00:46:03 Andrew
Are that bring me pride?
00:46:05 Andrew
And that means something.
00:46:07 Tim
Well, I think I’ll certainly are the right.
00:46:08 Tim
On the right.
00:46:09 Tim
Head. Yeah, you’re definitely heading in the.
00:46:10 Tim
Right direction with the with the everything.
00:46:12 Andrew
Thank. Thank you.
00:46:13 Tim
I wish you all the very best.
00:46:14 Tim
Of luck. Final question for you.
00:46:16 Tim
What? What would?
00:46:17 Tim
Your advice be to to men who might be listening to this, who maybe maybe have haven’t reached that point of diagnosis yet themselves, but maybe recognising from your words and and what you’ve you’ve talked through today. So honestly and openly, it may recognise some of that in themselves. What would your?
00:46:33 Tim
Advice be to those guys.
00:46:34 Andrew
My advice, and this is just my advice, obviously.
00:46:38 Andrew
And just find try and find the right help that there.
00:46:43 Andrew
Are I mean I?
00:46:45 Andrew
Reached out to my that that that if you can look at.
00:46:49 Andrew
That there are.
00:46:50 Andrew
Help numbers within the local council. I even reached out to my local council and I managed to get a a certain type of.
00:46:58 Andrew
Therapy and really, really difficult times.
00:47:02 Andrew
But I I would say it is the.
00:47:04 Andrew
Question and this is the thing, it’s.
00:47:06 Andrew
I I know I’m not really making much sense.
00:47:08 Andrew
But it’s such a.
00:47:08 Andrew
Sensitive finding the right help is key.
00:47:12 Tim
Where would someone start? Where? Where would? Where would you suggest they?
00:47:14 Andrew
Start. I mean you could start with the. You can start with National Autistic Society. You could even even you know honestly. Anyone, anyone struggling, reach out to me and I can help you find the right place wherever you are in the country you can get me on my Instagram and just reach out. That’s absolutely fine.
00:47:32 Andrew
But it’s it’s looking.
00:47:35 Andrew
This is such a really this is a really.
00:47:37 Andrew
Difficult question, sorry.
00:47:39 Tim
To end on.
00:47:39 Tim
A difficult question.
00:47:40 Andrew
No, no, it’s no.
00:47:41 Andrew
I think it’s a bad question, I think I.
00:47:43 Andrew
Should I think I should be able to answer this because it it really does come to your to going to your doctor to going to, reaching out, to help lines, to reaching out to anyone that can offer.
00:47:53 Andrew
Advice, but definitely the people that I found in London, they they were the ones that chased it all for me. You.
00:47:59 Andrew
Know so yeah, I. But I was very.
00:48:01 Andrew
Fortunate and this actually me.
00:48:04 Andrew
Not being able to answer this question also throws up into the air. Where is the?
00:48:07 Andrew
Support because this is.
00:48:09 Andrew
Another problem that I found.
00:48:11 Andrew
There isn’t the support, so this is and I’m really. So please anyone feel free to reach out to me and I’ll help you find it. And I’ll even just being here to listen to.
00:48:22 Tim
Thank. Thank you very much for that offer. I’ll, I’ll make sure that we put all the links to on on the show notes and put the links to your, your, your Instagram and everything.
00:48:27 Andrew
Ohh yeah.
00:48:30 Tim
Put the links to the survey as well and put do whatever we can to help spread the word.
00:48:35 Tim
Andrew, thank you so much for your time today. I really, really appreciate it. It’s been absolutely fascinating and and honestly take something from it. So thank you for your time have.
00:48:40 Andrew
Oh, thank you.
00:48:44 Tim
A good day. Enjoy.
00:48:44 Andrew
No, thank you.
00:48:45 Tim
Enjoy the rest of the your.
00:48:46 Tim
Time with the Groucho. Whatever you.
00:48:47 Tim
Ohh, thank you. I’m gonna go celeb hunting now. Nice. Nice. Alright, take care. Thanks. Alright. Alright. See you.
00:49:05 Tim
That’s it for another episode. Thanks to Andrew Kingsley for being so open about his experiences and challenges. If you’re in the music industry and would like to take part in Andrew’s ground Breaking survey, you’ll find a link to it.
00:49:16 Tim
In the.
00:49:17 Tim
Show notes and if you’d like to listen to John Legend’s latest album, well, you can find that pretty much everywhere.
00:49:23 Tim
Don’t forget you can keep the conversation going by answering our episode question, and for this episode we’d like to know, has music helped your mental health? You can answer it on the Spotify episode page, the link to which could be found in.
00:49:36 Tim
The episode notes or.
00:49:37 Tim
Through the entry site in the show.
00:49:38 Tim
Profile. You can also of.
00:49:40 Tim
Course interact with the show by.
00:49:41 Tim
Sending us a voice message.
00:49:43 Tim
We’re always really keen to hear what you think of our guests and the subjects we’re discussing. So tell us whether you could relate to Andrew’s story and how your own autism has impact.
00:49:51 Tim
In your life, you can also tell us your ideas for topics and things you’d like us to cover. Again, just head on over to the episode notes or to the entry site for more details and the.
00:50:00 Tim
Links to if.
00:50:01 Tim
So and finally if.
00:50:02 Tim
You’ve enjoyed the show. Please do leave us a review and subscribe on whatever platform you usually get your podcasts.
00:50:09 Tim
In the meantime, though.
00:50:10 Tim
Look after yourselves.
00:50:12 Tim
And I’ll see you soon. Take care.

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